Discussion:
Heads Up 2 - UK BBC4 Fri 16 May 22.00
(too old to reply)
Nozza
2008-05-16 19:17:44 UTC
Permalink
...and didn't spot this straigh afterwards!

MUSIC: When in Rome: Genesis in Concert
On: BBC 4 (116)
Date: Friday 16th May 2008 (starting in 1 hour and 42 minutes)
Time: 22:00 to 23:30 (1 hour and 30 minutes long)

Re-formed rock band Genesis recorded live at a free concert in front
of 500,000 fans in Rome's ancient Circo Massimo. As darkness descends,
it's a breathtaking spectacle, with a sweeping, curvaceous stage and
huge graphics screens failing to dwarf the sound of a supergroup
reborn. The band serve up plenty of old favourites like Land of
Confusion, No Son of Mine, the post-Gabriel hit Follow You, Follow Me
and Genesis's first-ever charting single, 1973's I Know What I Like
(In Your Wardrobe).
(Stereo, Widescreen, Subtitles)
Mark Rae
2008-05-16 22:45:14 UTC
Permalink
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there to see,
regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't (or shouldn't
have been) the case...

[Awaits predictable retort about The Musical Box...]
Covenant
2008-05-17 01:39:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there to
see, regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't (or
shouldn't have been) the case...
I dunno Mark, seriously...

Watching the show, the LACK of audience response to (for example) Invisible
Touch was a bit... weird.
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
Mark Rae
2008-05-17 08:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there to
see, regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't (or
shouldn't have been) the case...
I dunno Mark, seriously...
Watching the show, the LACK of audience response to (for example)
Invisible Touch was a bit... weird.
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and sterile
the performance was...
Covenant
2008-05-17 11:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there to
see, regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't (or
shouldn't have been) the case...
I dunno Mark, seriously...
Watching the show, the LACK of audience response to (for example)
Invisible Touch was a bit... weird.
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and sterile
the performance was...
;' )))
progea
2008-05-17 16:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there to
see, regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't (or
shouldn't have been) the case...
I dunno Mark, seriously...
Watching the show, the LACK of audience response to (for example)
Invisible Touch was a bit... weird.
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and sterile
the performance was...
The grand parade of lifeless performing...
Slubberdegullion
2008-05-18 16:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there
to see, regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't
(or shouldn't have been) the case...
I dunno Mark, seriously...
Watching the show, the LACK of audience response to (for example)
Invisible Touch was a bit... weird.
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and
sterile the performance was...
I dunno... I kinda enjoyed it....

probably the whole nostalgic trip.... I suppose.

Funny to see Mike as the posh professor rocking out..Tony was kind of
well.....Tony..... Phil - so disinterested! lol

I know what I like was fun though

:)
Mark Rae
2008-05-18 17:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slubberdegullion
Post by Mark Rae
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and sterile
the performance was...
I dunno... I kinda enjoyed it....
After having seen several clips, and having talked to people who were at the
shows, I couldn't be happier that I didn't go.

I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
Ries
2008-05-18 19:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Slubberdegullion
Post by Mark Rae
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and
sterile the performance was...
I dunno... I kinda enjoyed it....
After having seen several clips, and having talked to people who were at
the shows, I couldn't be happier that I didn't go.
I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
so you keep saying. It almost sounds like a mantra.

Ries
Lamblies
2008-05-18 22:04:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Slubberdegullion
Post by Mark Rae
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and
sterile the performance was...
I dunno... I kinda enjoyed it....
After having seen several clips, and having talked to people who were at
the shows, I couldn't be happier that I didn't go.
I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
They were the best of times...they were the worst of times.
Having seen Genesis live at two of the best of times & one of the mediocre
of times.....video is the only way I want to see the worst of times.
Having Genesis 'Live a Roma' 2007 is the closest to the decline I wish to
get.
Lamblies~
:-)
P.S. Any reincarnation (recreation) by TMB is better IMHO at this moment in
time anyhow.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Nic
2008-05-21 18:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lamblies
P.S. Any reincarnation (recreation) by TMB is better IMHO at this moment
in time anyhow.
I agree. I couldn't imagine an uninterested Hackett-less Genesis doing
anything good today anyhow. I prefer to revisit the past. I also prefer to
listen to the band UNIFAUN who have been the most listened to band for me in
the last half year, if not the last three decades. They are doing GENESIS
"soundscape" music, not simply covering songs already made brilliant by
Genesis. Unifaun is also a better listen that Pendragon, in my opinion.
Their CD comes out at the end of June on a label called Progress.
http://www.myspace.com/sylvanandbonamici
Nic
Mark Rae
2008-05-21 22:22:42 UTC
Permalink
I also prefer to listen to the band UNIFAUN
Don't we just know it...

I hope they're paying you well...
Nic
2008-05-22 09:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
I also prefer to listen to the band UNIFAUN
Don't we just know it...
I hope they're paying you well...
Hey that's alright my friend. I have no vested interest in this band other
than the fact that their music has moved my soul, unlike any band since
around 1977-78. That is when prog bands started to fall off the map for me,
Yes (Tormato), Genesis Hackett-less (And Then There Were Three, etc), Gentle
Giant (Missing Piece/Giant For A Day), Renaissance (Camera Camera)......
Since then we've flipped for bands like Pendragon and Porcupine Tree, and
even Dream Theater. But no one has captured the artistic vibe of 70's prog
like UNIFAUN, and what they do is all due to their respect to classic
GENESIS, circa Gabriel and Hackett. I lost a lot of interest in recent
neo-prog, until UNIFAUN. Give it a shot. If you could hear their epic "Quest
for the Last Virtue" I think Genesis fans would say "yea, that's it!"

Nic
Mark Rae
2008-05-22 10:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Since then we've flipped for bands like Pendragon and Porcupine Tree, and
even Dream Theater.
Speak for yourself...
Post by Nic
But no one has captured the artistic vibe of 70's prog like UNIFAUN, and
what they do is all due to their respect to classic GENESIS, circa Gabriel
and Hackett. I lost a lot of interest in recent neo-prog, until UNIFAUN.
Give it a shot. If you could hear their epic "Quest for the Last Virtue" I
think Genesis fans would say "yea, that's it!"
I've heard it. Mundane "prog-by-numbers", IMO...
Nic
2008-05-22 15:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
Since then we've flipped for bands like Pendragon and Porcupine Tree, and
even Dream Theater.
Speak for yourself...
Actually I don't like DT or PT at all.... Pendragon was good until I saw
their live DVD and it wrecked it for me.
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
But no one has captured the artistic vibe of 70's prog like UNIFAUN, and
what they do is all due to their respect to classic GENESIS, circa
Gabriel and Hackett. I lost a lot of interest in recent neo-prog, until
UNIFAUN. Give it a shot. If you could hear their epic "Quest for the Last
Virtue" I think Genesis fans would say "yea, that's it!"
I've heard it. Mundane "prog-by-numbers", IMO...
Aren't you the guy who recently listed Illegal Alien as a "great song"?
Hell, Paperlate was on that list of yours too! I mean, you're the one
mentioning the word "mundane" and I don't think you should actually use the
word if you think Illegal Alien is a great song. Perhaps you were speaking
for yourself, and if that's true maybe it will keep you out of the loony
hospital.

NC
Mark Rae
2008-05-22 15:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
I've heard it. Mundane "prog-by-numbers", IMO...
Aren't you the guy who recently listed Illegal Alien as a "great song"?
No.
Post by Nic
Hell, Paperlate was on that list of yours too!
What list would that be...?
Nic
2008-05-22 20:26:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
I've heard it. Mundane "prog-by-numbers", IMO...
Aren't you the guy who recently listed Illegal Alien as a "great song"?
No.
Post by Nic
Hell, Paperlate was on that list of yours too!
What list would that be...?
Well, it appears that maybe someone was using your name/ID with this post
below from March though your name appears as the author on the list and it's
actually under the subject title of VdGG. Odd. Seems like this has been the
case more than once. My bad. But you're still wrong about Unifaun! : )

----- Original Message -----
From: <***@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.music.genesis
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: More Songs


What about,

The Ballad of Big
illegal alien
Burning rope
Paperlate
Congo

There are so many great songs. In the Cage is my favorite.
Mark Rae
2008-05-22 21:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
But you're still wrong about Unifaun! : )
No I'm not - I simply don't share your opinion.

That doesn't make me wrong...
Nic
2008-05-28 17:01:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
But you're still wrong about Unifaun! : )
No I'm not - I simply don't share your opinion.
That doesn't make me wrong...
So, I should say that the VdGG album "Trisector" is a piece of crap with
tunes not really going anywhere and the singer sounds like a warbling old
man that shouldn't do more than, um, TALK?

NC
Mark Rae
2008-05-28 17:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
But you're still wrong about Unifaun! : )
No I'm not - I simply don't share your opinion.
That doesn't make me wrong...
So, I should say that the VdGG album "Trisector" is a piece of crap with
tunes not really going anywhere and the singer sounds like a warbling old
man that shouldn't do more than, um, TALK?
Absolutely, if you've actually heard the album and that's your honest
opinion...
Nic
2008-05-28 18:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
But you're still wrong about Unifaun! : )
No I'm not - I simply don't share your opinion.
That doesn't make me wrong...
So, I should say that the VdGG album "Trisector" is a piece of crap with
tunes not really going anywhere and the singer sounds like a warbling old
man that shouldn't do more than, um, TALK?
Absolutely, if you've actually heard the album and that's your honest
opinion...
No, it's not my honest opinion, and I haven't heard the album (in whole).
like you haven't heard the Unifaun album in whole. I am fairly certain of
that. But one thing I can understand now, if you like that VdGG album I can
see why you wouldn't like Unifaun....

NC
Mark Rae
2008-05-28 18:33:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
So, I should say that the VdGG album "Trisector" is a piece of crap with
tunes not really going anywhere and the singer sounds like a warbling
old man that shouldn't do more than, um, TALK?
Absolutely, if you've actually heard the album and that's your honest
opinion...
No, it's not my honest opinion,
Genius.
Post by Nic
and I haven't heard the album...
Outstanding.
Post by Nic
like you haven't heard the Unifaun album in whole. I am fairly certain of
that.
I have heard all of it. Only a cretin would feel he was in a position to
comment on an album he hadn't actually heard (see above...)
Post by Nic
But one thing I can understand now, if you like that VdGG album I can see
why you wouldn't like Unifaun....
Gripping stuff...
Nic
2008-05-28 19:50:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
So, I should say that the VdGG album "Trisector" is a piece of crap
with tunes not really going anywhere and the singer sounds like a
warbling old man that shouldn't do more than, um, TALK?
Absolutely, if you've actually heard the album and that's your honest
opinion...
No, it's not my honest opinion,
Genius.
Post by Nic
and I haven't heard the album...
Outstanding.
Post by Nic
like you haven't heard the Unifaun album in whole. I am fairly certain of
that.
I have heard all of it.
No you haven't my friend.
But when you do hear all of it please give an honest opinion. You see, the
whole album isn't available for online downloads. I am sure that if you
heard the whole album you wouldn't be saying the ridiculous things you're
saying about it.... Sort of like my ridiculous coments about the VdGG album
you "recommended" here.


Only a cretin would feel he was in a position to
Post by Mark Rae
comment on an album he hadn't actually heard (see above...)
Then do give your review when you hear the whole album when it's out.

Have a grand day.

NC
Newsgroups
2008-05-28 20:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
I have heard all of it.
No you haven't my friend.
But when you do hear all of it please give an honest opinion. You see, the
whole album isn't available for online downloads.
So they only posted the shit, and the good stuff is yet to be heard? Silly
of them.

Jim
Lamblies
2008-05-29 01:09:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
But you're still wrong about Unifaun! : )
No I'm not - I simply don't share your opinion.
That doesn't make me wrong...
So, I should say that the VdGG album "Trisector" is a piece of crap with
tunes not really going anywhere and the singer sounds like a warbling old
man that shouldn't do more than, um, TALK?
NC
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you are not doing Unifaun any
favours keeping up this childish nonsense, Unifaun should have perhaps put
the better tracks from the album up for download instead of the mediocre
ones then if you are right.

As for Trisector I think it is actually very good for a now admittedly aging
band & shows welcomed originality geared to today as well as traces of their
original roots....beautiful singing was never really the aim of VDGG in the
past so why should it be today?.....there was though always an emotion in
the lyrics that still exists to this day that suits the dramatic music
perfectly.

Having almost all the VDGG albums over the years I have to say that like
Gentle Giant they changed with the times often but still maintained their
unique trademark sound. They are gaining an ever growing fanbase as more &
more people discover what was missed or overlooked by a surprising large
amount of people over the years.

Lamblies~


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Nic
2008-05-30 17:23:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lamblies
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you are not doing Unifaun any
favours keeping up this childish nonsense, Unifaun should have perhaps put
the better tracks from the album up for download instead of the mediocre
ones then if you are right.
It's just a pity that someone will crtique something so harshly in public
without really giving it a chance, such as when someone reviews a film and
doesn't really see the whole thing, or a Broadway play. How many records
have you bought that it took a few listens to get it? In this case, we're
talking about a prog rock band and a labor of love. We should cheer from the
sidelines rather than smack it down unjustifiably. The more prog out there
the merrier, right? You see, I only mentioned them here because I know folks
here will like them. I've already heard from a handful of people saying
thanks for the tip. All it took was one to say something negative, just
because he apparently didn't like it. I figure Mark didn't give it that much
of a chance because there's only a couple of ways to hear the pre-release
tracks. You can only listen to a few songs from MySpace, but you don't get
the incredible 15 minute track due to MySpace time limitations, and you can
only listen to five of the eleven tracks the've completed. Purchaseable
downloads are available from a web site. Again, not all of the tracks are
there only because they've only recently completed the final tracks, the
downloads were uploaded months ago. The newer tracks are amazing. It's
important to hear an album in context, especially prog rock, rather than
skipping around and checking a bit here and a bit there. It's good to be in
the right place at the right time. Listening to samples online isn't a good
source for getting the best impression of prog rock tunes. I prefer to take
an album in and giving it my attention and play it on my home system,
hopefully with a glass of fine wine. I may have set up critisism for Unifaun
by Mark because I spoke so highly of them. That's asking for trouble perhaps
because instantly someone could be defensive and choose to be negative and
critical, just because.


I challenge Mark to buy the album when it comes out at the very end of June.
If he concludes he still doesn't like it then I will buy the album from him.
No risk! I have one friend that got the tracks offline and he said it took
him a couple of listens before he really got into it, and now compares some
of the tracks to "Battle of Epping Forest", "Carpet Crawlers" and even
"Supper's Ready".

I can't apologize for being over the moon for an album that has impressed me
more than ANY prog rock album since Yes' Relayer or Genesis' W&W, and I
can't apologize for hoping that some here will give it a chance and like it.
But I can apologize if my defense of this music has bothered anyone.

NC
Post by Lamblies
As for Trisector I think it is actually very good for a now admittedly
aging band & shows welcomed originality geared to today as well as traces
of their original roots....beautiful singing was never really the aim of
VDGG in the past so why should it be today?.....there was though always an
emotion in the lyrics that still exists to this day that suits the
dramatic music perfectly.
Having almost all the VDGG albums over the years I have to say that like
Gentle Giant they changed with the times often but still maintained their
unique trademark sound. They are gaining an ever growing fanbase as more &
more people discover what was missed or overlooked by a surprising large
amount of people over the years.
Lamblies~
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Lamblies
2008-05-30 21:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Lamblies
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you are not doing Unifaun any
favours keeping up this childish nonsense, Unifaun should have perhaps
put the better tracks from the album up for download instead of the
mediocre ones then if you are right.
It's just a pity that someone will crtique something so harshly in public
without really giving it a chance, such as when someone reviews a film and
doesn't really see the whole thing, or a Broadway play. How many records
have you bought that it took a few listens to get it? In this case, we're
talking about a prog rock band and a labor of love. We should cheer from
the sidelines rather than smack it down unjustifiably. The more prog out
there the merrier, right? You see, I only mentioned them here because I
know folks here will like them. I've already heard from a handful of
people saying thanks for the tip. All it took was one to say something
negative, just because he apparently didn't like it. I figure Mark didn't
give it that much of a chance because there's only a couple of ways to
hear the pre-release tracks. You can only listen to a few songs from
MySpace, but you don't get the incredible 15 minute track due to MySpace
time limitations, and you can only listen to five of the eleven tracks
the've completed. Purchaseable downloads are available from a web site.
Again, not all of the tracks are there only because they've only recently
completed the final tracks, the downloads were uploaded months ago. The
newer tracks are amazing. It's important to hear an album in context,
especially prog rock, rather than skipping around and checking a bit here
and a bit there. It's good to be in the right place at the right time.
Listening to samples online isn't a good source for getting the best
impression of prog rock tunes. I prefer to take an album in and giving it
my attention and play it on my home system, hopefully with a glass of fine
wine. I may have set up critisism for Unifaun by Mark because I spoke so
highly of them. That's asking for trouble perhaps because instantly
someone could be defensive and choose to be negative and critical, just
because.
I challenge Mark to buy the album when it comes out at the very end of
June. If he concludes he still doesn't like it then I will buy the album
from him. No risk! I have one friend that got the tracks offline and he
said it took him a couple of listens before he really got into it, and now
compares some of the tracks to "Battle of Epping Forest", "Carpet
Crawlers" and even "Supper's Ready".
I can't apologize for being over the moon for an album that has impressed
me more than ANY prog rock album since Yes' Relayer or Genesis' W&W, and I
can't apologize for hoping that some here will give it a chance and like
it. But I can apologize if my defense of this music has bothered anyone.
NC
Didn't Mark say it was 'prog by numbers'?? hardly harsh criticism. There
have been a lot of prog bands using a proven formula & seemingly intentional
similarities that have been great as well.......Starcastle comes to mind as
an example.

Lamblies~


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Nic
2008-05-30 21:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lamblies
Didn't Mark say it was 'prog by numbers'?? hardly harsh criticism.
He also said it was mundane. That's harsh, because it's not accurate. I
don't mind "prog by numbers", because even that is a whole hell of a lot
better than what record companies favor. Unifaun might even say themselves
that it's classic Genesis by numbers. Mundane is what got me, especially
when the guy sent out a message recommending the new VdGG album that doesn't
even come close to Unifaun, my opinion only, though I or anyone else didn't
lay into him about it at the time.

I am a big Yes fan, in fact more than Genesis. I liked Starcastle, but I
understood the criticism that they were a cheesy rip off AT THE TIME.
Unifaun are simply recalling an era that has long since been abandoned by
Genesis, so it is not like a cheesy Starcastle. Thanks for the thougt
though.

NC


There
Post by Lamblies
have been a lot of prog bands using a proven formula & seemingly
intentional similarities that have been great as well.......Starcastle
comes to mind as an example.
Lamblies~
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Mark Rae
2008-05-30 22:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
He also said it was mundane. That's harsh, because it's not accurate. I
don't mind "prog by numbers", because even that is a whole hell of a lot
better than what record companies favor. Unifaun might even say themselves
that it's classic Genesis by numbers. Mundane is what got me, especially
when the guy sent out a message recommending the new VdGG album that
doesn't even come close to Unifaun, my opinion only, though I or anyone
else didn't lay into him about it at the time.
Yes, I did say it was mundane, and I stand by it. In my opinion, the Unifaun
songs which I've heard thus far are tedious in the extreme and have nothing
whatever going for them.

Unifaun themselves might indeed say that it's classic Genesis by numbers.
However, they'd be wrong. Nothing that I've heard from them comes anywhere
close to classic Genesis, by numbers or otherwise. Granted they're trying
*really* hard and are doubtless convinced that they are creating Supper's
Ready part 2 or whatever, but they have failed miserably, in my opinion...
It's not enough to mention 'foxtrot' and 'Duke' in the lyrics and lift
keyboard fills straight out of 'Back In NYC' - that in itself doesn't
constitute "classic" Genesis. Not even close... But that should at least
convince you that I have actually listened to their stuff...

What I find really curious, amusing and slightly disturbing is how
personally you appear to be taking this. At the end of the day, all it boils
down to is that I don't like a band that you like. How can you actually be
bothered to be bothered by that? From your reaction, anyone would think that
I'd made a grossly insulting comment about your mother or something...

The other thing I find a little strange is that you appear to think that
making negative comments about the latest VdGG album (even though, by your
own admission, you have not really heard any of it) would somehow upset me
personally!
Nic
2008-05-30 23:07:56 UTC
Permalink
No problem Mark, really. I just chalk it up to you having a really bad taste
for music and a really bad disposition. I would never fault a blind man for
not recognizing the color blue. Otherwise have a nice day my friend!

NC
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
He also said it was mundane. That's harsh, because it's not accurate. I
don't mind "prog by numbers", because even that is a whole hell of a lot
better than what record companies favor. Unifaun might even say
themselves that it's classic Genesis by numbers. Mundane is what got me,
especially when the guy sent out a message recommending the new VdGG
album that doesn't even come close to Unifaun, my opinion only, though I
or anyone else didn't lay into him about it at the time.
Yes, I did say it was mundane, and I stand by it. In my opinion, the
Unifaun songs which I've heard thus far are tedious in the extreme and
have nothing whatever going for them.
Unifaun themselves might indeed say that it's classic Genesis by numbers.
However, they'd be wrong. Nothing that I've heard from them comes anywhere
close to classic Genesis, by numbers or otherwise. Granted they're trying
*really* hard and are doubtless convinced that they are creating Supper's
Ready part 2 or whatever, but they have failed miserably, in my opinion...
It's not enough to mention 'foxtrot' and 'Duke' in the lyrics and lift
keyboard fills straight out of 'Back In NYC' - that in itself doesn't
constitute "classic" Genesis. Not even close... But that should at least
convince you that I have actually listened to their stuff...
What I find really curious, amusing and slightly disturbing is how
personally you appear to be taking this. At the end of the day, all it
boils down to is that I don't like a band that you like. How can you
actually be bothered to be bothered by that? From your reaction, anyone
would think that I'd made a grossly insulting comment about your mother or
something...
The other thing I find a little strange is that you appear to think that
making negative comments about the latest VdGG album (even though, by your
own admission, you have not really heard any of it) would somehow upset me
personally!
Mark Rae
2008-05-30 23:22:20 UTC
Permalink
"Nic" <***@mlode.com> wrote in message news:***@motherlodeinternetinc....

[top-posting corrected]
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
He also said it was mundane. That's harsh, because it's not accurate. I
don't mind "prog by numbers", because even that is a whole hell of a lot
better than what record companies favor. Unifaun might even say
themselves that it's classic Genesis by numbers. Mundane is what got me,
especially when the guy sent out a message recommending the new VdGG
album that doesn't even come close to Unifaun, my opinion only, though I
or anyone else didn't lay into him about it at the time.
Yes, I did say it was mundane, and I stand by it. In my opinion, the
Unifaun songs which I've heard thus far are tedious in the extreme and
have nothing whatever going for them.
Unifaun themselves might indeed say that it's classic Genesis by numbers.
However, they'd be wrong. Nothing that I've heard from them comes
anywhere close to classic Genesis, by numbers or otherwise. Granted
they're trying *really* hard and are doubtless convinced that they are
creating Supper's Ready part 2 or whatever, but they have failed
miserably, in my opinion... It's not enough to mention 'foxtrot' and
'Duke' in the lyrics and lift keyboard fills straight out of 'Back In
NYC' - that in itself doesn't constitute "classic" Genesis. Not even
close... But that should at least convince you that I have actually
listened to their stuff...
What I find really curious, amusing and slightly disturbing is how
personally you appear to be taking this. At the end of the day, all it
boils down to is that I don't like a band that you like. How can you
actually be bothered to be bothered by that? From your reaction, anyone
would think that I'd made a grossly insulting comment about your mother
or something...
The other thing I find a little strange is that you appear to think that
making negative comments about the latest VdGG album (even though, by
your own admission, you have not really heard any of it) would somehow
upset me personally!
No problem Mark, really. I just chalk it up to you having a really bad
taste for music and a really bad disposition. I would never fault a blind
man for not recognizing the color blue. Otherwise have a nice day my
friend!
Yeah, that must be it. Anyone who doesn't like what you like must be an
idiot, right...? Because your opinion is the correct one, isn't it...?
Newsgroups
2008-05-30 23:39:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
No problem Mark, really. I just chalk it up to you having a really bad
taste for music and a really bad disposition.
Me too, apparently.

My love for pre-Big Three Genesis notwithstanding.

Jim

Lamblies
2008-05-23 01:10:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
I've heard it. Mundane "prog-by-numbers", IMO...
Aren't you the guy who recently listed Illegal Alien as a "great song"?
No.
Post by Nic
Hell, Paperlate was on that list of yours too!
What list would that be...?
Well, it appears that maybe someone was using your name/ID with this post
below from March though your name appears as the author on the list and
it's actually under the subject title of VdGG. Odd. Seems like this has
been the case more than once. My bad. But you're still wrong about
Unifaun! : )
It's a matter of personal taste really......each to their own. No-one is
'wrong' as such.

I find from what little I've heard it sounds too much like Genesis on
purpose....but.....lacks originality.....almost like doing similar versions
of early Genesis pieces, then creating the lyrics & vocals in as close as
possible a style & sound to fit.......almost painfully at times. I enjoyed
listening to each track 'once' as they are fun to see the similarities & I
might enjoy the whole album once or twice, who knows....flattering for
Genesis though if any of the band care enough.

Lamblies~


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Mark Rae
2008-05-23 01:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lamblies
I find from what little I've heard it sounds too much like Genesis on
purpose....but.....lacks originality.....almost like doing similar
versions of early Genesis pieces, then creating the lyrics & vocals in as
close as possible a style & sound to fit.......almost painfully at times.
Indeed. Hence my "prog-by-numbers" comment...

Their next album is apparently going to be called Peddling Albion by the
Penny...
Godolphin&fellow
2008-05-27 13:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Lamblies
I find from what little I've heard it sounds too much like Genesis on
purpose....but.....lacks originality.....almost like doing similar
versions of early Genesis pieces, then creating the lyrics & vocals in as
close as possible a style & sound to fit.......almost painfully at times.
Indeed. Hence my "prog-by-numbers" comment...
Their next album is apparently going to be called Peddling Albion by the
Penny...
I know what you both are saying, yet... a group that is from its
inception falling in with the pack / running with the herd is rarely
accused of 'stealing' or 'painting by numbers'. (Nor can it later
genuinely be flattered when some group comes along claiming it as a
direct influence.) The influence that a group such as Genesis has
sticks out because of its individuality, it's easier for people to
spot.

For me, the obviousness of the 'progenitive line' doesn't bother me
much... (that is, so long as the newer music is done with skill and
passion... just TRYING, it gets tiresome, and I've heard plenty of
that).

It seems to me groups, like Genesis, that had been singularly creative
carved out a territory as broad as some umbrella styles, ('70s rock',
'classic soul', whatever), the sort that gets recycled and recast
againa and again... and without the critics being dismissive or even
noticing. Compared to 'classic rock', or punk, etc, prog today is
less mine out. To me there's STILL virgin territory to be explored
even between say Foxtrot and SEbtP. Innovation is cool but good music
is what it's about in the end.
Lamblies
2008-05-22 16:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nic
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
Since then we've flipped for bands like Pendragon and Porcupine Tree,
and even Dream Theater.
Speak for yourself...
Actually I don't like DT or PT at all.... Pendragon was good until I saw
their live DVD and it wrecked it for me.
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Nic
But no one has captured the artistic vibe of 70's prog like UNIFAUN, and
what they do is all due to their respect to classic GENESIS, circa
Gabriel and Hackett. I lost a lot of interest in recent neo-prog, until
UNIFAUN. Give it a shot. If you could hear their epic "Quest for the
Last Virtue" I think Genesis fans would say "yea, that's it!"
I've heard it. Mundane "prog-by-numbers", IMO...
Aren't you the guy who recently listed Illegal Alien as a "great song"?
Hardly!
Post by Nic
Hell, Paperlate was on that list of yours too! I mean, you're the one
mentioning the word "mundane" and I don't think you should actually use
the word if you think Illegal Alien is a great song.
I don't think so!
Post by Nic
Perhaps you were speaking for yourself, and if that's true maybe it will
keep you out of the loony hospital.
NC
You must have Mark mixed up with some raving loony!

Lamblies~


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Newsgroups
2008-05-22 20:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lamblies
You must have Mark mixed up with some raving loony!
Lamblies~
Some *other* raving loony.

Jim
Lamblies
2008-05-23 01:12:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Lamblies
You must have Mark mixed up with some raving loony!
Lamblies~
Some *other* raving loony.
Jim
:-) I almost posted that actually without meaning it.

Lamblies~


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Covenant
2008-05-18 22:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Slubberdegullion
Post by Mark Rae
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and
sterile the performance was...
I dunno... I kinda enjoyed it....
After having seen several clips, and having talked to people who were at
the shows, I couldn't be happier that I didn't go.
I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
Watching the Documentary, Phil's disinterest is not only palpable, it's
VOCALISED!

What I found most interesting was the other guys saying that the *Peter and
Steve* reunion isn't *off* and that this mini tour was NOT the same project!
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
Mark Rae
2008-05-18 22:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
Watching the Documentary, Phil's disinterest is not only palpable, it's
VOCALISED!
That pretty much says it all... How can a band have any live passion when
their lead singer is clearly bored rigid and wishes he wasn't there...?

He's said more than once that he can't listen to the "old" stuff any more
and finds the idea of singing e.g. "nylon sheets and blankets" embarassing.
No problem with that - people's taste changes over the years. But if he
hates it so much, then why do it...?
Post by Covenant
What I found most interesting was the other guys saying that the *Peter
and Steve* reunion isn't *off* and that this mini tour was NOT the same
project!
That's been their standard response to this question for the last 20 or so
years... We're not saying yes, we're not saying no... Next question...
Sal Video
2008-05-19 14:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
Watching the Documentary, Phil's disinterest is not only palpable, it's
VOCALISED!
That pretty much says it all... How can a band have any live passion when
their lead singer is clearly bored rigid and wishes he wasn't there...?
He's said more than once that he can't listen to the "old" stuff any more
and finds the idea of singing e.g. "nylon sheets and blankets"
embarassing. No problem with that - people's taste changes over the years.
But if he hates it so much, then why do it...
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Covenant
What I found most interesting was the other guys saying that the *Peter
and Steve* reunion isn't *off* and that this mini tour was NOT the same
project!
That's been their standard response to this question for the last 20 or so
years... We're not saying yes, we're not saying no... Next question...
Mark Rae
2008-05-19 15:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sal Video
Post by Mark Rae
But if he hates it so much, then why do it...
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
All three of them already had more money than they'll ever need, especially
Phil...
Sal Video
2008-05-19 14:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Slubberdegullion
Post by Mark Rae
Probably more to do with their disappointment at how lifeless and
sterile the performance was...
I dunno... I kinda enjoyed it....
After having seen several clips, and having talked to people who were at
the shows, I couldn't be happier that I didn't go.
I would really hate this to have been my final memory of this once great
band...
Watching the Documentary, Phil's disinterest is not only palpable, it's
VOCALISED!
Amazing how Bruce Springsteen can still go out and sing Rosalita with the
same enthusiasm he had in 1975 but Phil has so much shame for early Genesis
he can't even appear interested.

Says more about the singer than the song.
Mark Rae
2008-05-19 15:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sal Video
Phil has so much shame for early Genesis
Not just early Genesis...
Ries
2008-05-19 17:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Sal Video
Phil has so much shame for early Genesis
Not just early Genesis...
He didnt wanted to sing abacab because "he didnt knew what the lyrics
were about"
Mark Rae
2008-05-19 18:08:06 UTC
Permalink
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics were
about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Ries
2008-05-19 19:00:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Does mike sing then?
Mark Rae
2008-05-19 20:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ries
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Does mike sing then?
Of course not.
Newsgroups
2008-05-19 22:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ries
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Does mike sing then?
He did croak through a few tunes on one solo album.
Newsgroups
2008-05-19 22:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Assuming he ever knew.
Mark Rae
2008-05-19 22:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Assuming he ever knew.
Er, well he would have when he wrote them...

Obviously...
Newsgroups
2008-05-19 23:00:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Assuming he ever knew.
Er, well he would have when he wrote them...
Obviously...
It's possible. Do you think that's true of Tony?
Mark Rae
2008-05-19 23:03:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Assuming he ever knew.
Er, well he would have when he wrote them...
Obviously...
It's possible.
What is...?
Post by Newsgroups
Do you think that's true of Tony?
Do I think what's true of Tony...?
Newsgroups
2008-05-20 03:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Newsgroups
Post by Mark Rae
He didn't want to sing Abacab because "he didn't know what the lyrics
were about"
No doubt Mike had forgotten...
Assuming he ever knew.
Er, well he would have when he wrote them...
Obviously...
It's possible.
What is...?
Lessee. Mark: "He would have when he wrote them...Obviously..." Me:
"It's possible." Not sure where the disconnect there is. You assert Mike
knew what the lyrics were about when he wrote them. I admit it's possible.
I don't agree it's obvious.
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Newsgroups
Do you think that's true of Tony?
Do I think what's true of Tony...?
Do you think Tony always knows what his lyrics mean when he writes them? I
don't get that impression. While Mike is perhaps less obviously pulling
lyrics out of his arse on the average day, I can't say I would accept it as
a given that he would have a concrete meaning for every line of every song,
never engaging in the same kind of word-painting that seems to infect Tony
from time to time.

Follow?
Mark Rae
2008-05-20 09:57:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Newsgroups
Follow?
Yes.
Godolphin&fellow
2008-05-20 19:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Post by Sal Video
Phil has so much shame for early Genesis
Not just early Genesis...
You'd think the combination of the event, with all those cheering
people, and his instincts for performing would be enough to stir his
enthusiasm while on stage, no matter how he felt about it all the
other 22 hours of the day. To not give your best performance shows a
disrespect for the audience. Still I'll buy the DVD and hope for some
good things.
Mark Rae
2008-05-20 23:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Still I'll buy the DVD and hope for some good things.
Save your money...
Proboscis
2008-05-22 03:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Rae
Still I'll buy the DVD and hope for some good things.
Save your money...
I thought more than ever they looked like the puppets in the Land of
Confusion video...
Mark Rae
2008-05-22 10:16:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Proboscis
Post by Mark Rae
Still I'll buy the DVD and hope for some good things.
Save your money...
I thought more than ever they looked like the puppets in the Land of
Confusion video...
It really is very, very sad...
Mirobaldo
2008-05-30 21:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
Post by Mark Rae
plenty of old favourites like Land of Confusion, No Son of Mine
Which is what the vast majority of the 500,000 attending were there to
see, regardless of whether some people in here think that isn't (or
shouldn't have been) the case...
I dunno Mark, seriously...
Watching the show, the LACK of audience response to (for example) Invisible
Touch was a bit... weird.
IT is one of the less loved song of Genesis here in Italy. I was in the
crowd and songs like Ripples or Los Endos or IKWIL were sung by the
crowd from the firs note. (Los Endos with la la la laaaaaaa)
I have the DVD and I feel a bit of delusion about the fact that the
crowd don't appear in the audio tracks as it was at the concert.

Really I was in Bern and Munchen but the rumble of Rome with Behind The
Lines or Cinema Show was not comparable...

Yes, the crowd on IT and Land Of Confusion was a little bit cold,
sometimes the barrier of the language don't help when Phil speaks but I
remember that the crowd on the Stagnations part of IKWIL were amazing.

Sadly on the DVD the crowd is too far away
progea
2008-05-17 01:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nozza
...and didn't spot this straigh afterwards!
MUSIC: When in Rome: Genesis in Concert
On: BBC 4 (116)    
Date: Friday 16th May 2008 (starting in 1 hour and 42 minutes)
Time: 22:00 to 23:30 (1 hour and 30 minutes long)
Re-formed rock band Genesis recorded live at a free concert in front
of 500,000 fans in Rome's ancient Circo Massimo. As darkness descends,
it's a breathtaking spectacle, with a sweeping, curvaceous stage and
huge graphics screens failing to dwarf the sound of a supergroup
reborn. The band serve up plenty of old favourites like Land of
Confusion, No Son of Mine, the post-Gabriel hit Follow You, Follow Me
and Genesis's first-ever charting single, 1973's I Know What I Like
(In Your Wardrobe).
(Stereo, Widescreen, Subtitles)
Too late for today but it would be ok on any other day ;)

http://blog.myspace.com/genesismusic

Friday, May 16, 2008

Are you a Genesis fan living in the UK?


Are you a Genesis fan living in the UK?

BBC will be airing a special 60 minute edit of Come Rain Or Shine –
the Anthony Mathile tour documentary on BBC 4 this evening at 9pm
followed by a 90 minute edit of When in Rome.

Already have plans tonight? The 60 minute edit of Come Rain Or Shine
and the 90 minute edit of When In Rome will both will be repeated on
BBC 4 this Sunday from 11pm.

On Friday 23rd May BBC 1 will show a 60 minute edit of When in Rome.







12:40 - 0 Comments - 2 Kudos - Add Comment
Stephen Bowden
2008-05-24 14:36:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by progea
Post by Nozza
...and didn't spot this straigh afterwards!
MUSIC: When in Rome: Genesis in Concert
On: BBC 4 (116)
Date: Friday 16th May 2008 (starting in 1 hour and 42 minutes)
Time: 22:00 to 23:30 (1 hour and 30 minutes long)
Re-formed rock band Genesis recorded live at a free concert in front
of 500,000 fans in Rome's ancient Circo Massimo. As darkness descends,
it's a breathtaking spectacle, with a sweeping, curvaceous stage and
huge graphics screens failing to dwarf the sound of a supergroup
reborn. The band serve up plenty of old favourites like Land of
Confusion, No Son of Mine, the post-Gabriel hit Follow You, Follow Me
and Genesis's first-ever charting single, 1973's I Know What I Like
(In Your Wardrobe).
(Stereo, Widescreen, Subtitles)
Too late for today but it would be ok on any other day ;)
http://blog.myspace.com/genesismusic
Friday, May 16, 2008
Are you a Genesis fan living in the UK?
Are you a Genesis fan living in the UK?
BBC will be airing a special 60 minute edit of Come Rain Or Shine –
the Anthony Mathile tour documentary on BBC 4 this evening at 9pm
followed by a 90 minute edit of When in Rome.
Already have plans tonight? The 60 minute edit of Come Rain Or Shine
and the 90 minute edit of When In Rome will both will be repeated on
BBC 4 this Sunday from 11pm.
On Friday 23rd May BBC 1 will show a 60 minute edit of When in Rome.
12:40 - 0 Comments - 2 Kudos - Add Comment
The BBC four show cut out an entire hour of this brilliant circo massimo
show, they should have shown the Twickenham show, where we enjoyed
"audience participation time."

Does anybody know if the Twickenham show can be bought on DVD yet?

Steve.
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