Discussion:
Dodo / Lurker
(too old to reply)
ikr
2005-12-03 12:42:24 UTC
Permalink
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the first
time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A metaphor for
something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat) and the kbd riff
in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-03 13:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ikr
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the first
time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A metaphor
for something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat) and the kbd
riff in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
Submarines.
ikr
2005-12-03 13:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the first
time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A metaphor
for something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat) and the
kbd riff in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
Submarines.
Nuclear?
Slubberdegullion
2005-12-03 14:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ikr
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the first
time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A metaphor
for something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat) and the
kbd riff in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
Submarines.
Nuclear?
Nah - steam driven
jren57
2005-12-03 14:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by ikr
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the first
time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A metaphor
for something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat) and the
kbd riff in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
Submarines.
Nuclear?
From the old "The Way They Walk", website:

http://www.twtw.demon.co.uk/faq.htm

12) What do the lyrics in the song Dodo/Lurker mean?

In November 1991 someone actually phoned in to the Larry King Radio Show
and asked Genesis:

Question: There's a song Dodo/Lurker which first appeared on Abacab, can
you tell me what that song is all about?

Tony: God, it's a long time ago, I wrote that lyric...many years ago. It
was really more a, one of those kind of lyrics that wasn't supposed to
have too specific a meaning, like individual lines have meanings in it.
Erm, I can't remember particularly what was going on in my brain there.

Larry King: Abstract.

Tony: Well it was, really was sort of stream of consciousness kind of
lyric really, I liked the sound of the words and you had this sort of
different images that came in. It was one of those songs that was
supposed to have a sort of, an image with each line that was supposed to
hit you.

As for the Lurker riddle, this is taken from the October 1997 edition of
Record Collector:

Tony: It's very interesting this, because we're now in 1997, and I wrote
the lyric to that in '82. You may say there's been a lot of discussion
about what the riddle is, but I've never actually been asked that
question in an interview. Because no one asked me it all fell a bit
flat! Now all these years on, I'm afraid to say really that there is no
real solution. You can search for your own one if you like. It was a bit
of a joke. When I was writing it I honestly didn't really have a
specific idea in mind. If you can find out what the answer is, perhaps
you can tell me!

According to Scott McMahan and the Genesis Discography, the lurker is a
submarine:

"..all the clues are there. I would bet the "two eyes looking to see
what I was" refers to a stereo periscope.
Clothes of brass: Brass is a staple of the nautical world, for its
resistance to corrosion. The use of the word conjures up more 2000
Leagues Under The Sea images than those of a nuclear powered submarine,
but nevertheless the association of brass with the sea is inescapable.

Hair of brown: When submarines surface, they have all sorts of seaweeds
and camouflage on the deck that is exposed to the sky.

Seldom need to breathe: Submarines carry their own air supply, and do
not often need to resurface.

Don't need no wings to fly: Of course not, it "flies" through the ocean.

And a heart of stone: Uranium, the stone that powers the nuclear reactor.

And a fear of fire and water: The two most deadliest things that can
happen to a submarine. Water means a hull breach, and pressure loss, and
everyone dies. Fire means all the oxygen aboard burns and everyone dies.

The final proof that the answer to the riddle is, truly, a submarine
lies in the music. The working titles for Dodo and Lurker were German I
and II. As in German U-boats, because the music itself doesn't sound
Germanic. If you listen to Dodo, Lurker, and Submarine back to back, you
will find that Lurker has some of the exact same drum lines, and Lurker
ends on the same music that Submarine begins. Like the suites of
thematically related music in A Trick Of The Tail and Wind and
Wuthering, this is yet another case of Genesis splicing and dicing a
long track of related music into separate parts scattered all over the
place."

-------------------------------------------------------------

The third part of "Dodo/Lurker" is of course "Submarine" which was on
the B-side of the "Man on the Corner" single and the Archive #2 boxset.
ikr
2005-12-03 14:29:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by jren57
Post by ikr
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the
first time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A
metaphor for something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat)
and the kbd riff in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
Submarines.
Nuclear?
http://www.twtw.demon.co.uk/faq.htm
12) What do the lyrics in the song Dodo/Lurker mean?
In November 1991 someone actually phoned in to the Larry King Radio Show
Question: There's a song Dodo/Lurker which first appeared on Abacab, can
you tell me what that song is all about?
Tony: God, it's a long time ago, I wrote that lyric...many years ago. It
was really more a, one of those kind of lyrics that wasn't supposed to
have too specific a meaning, like individual lines have meanings in it.
Erm, I can't remember particularly what was going on in my brain there.
Larry King: Abstract.
Tony: Well it was, really was sort of stream of consciousness kind of
lyric really, I liked the sound of the words and you had this sort of
different images that came in. It was one of those songs that was supposed
to have a sort of, an image with each line that was supposed to hit you.
As for the Lurker riddle, this is taken from the October 1997 edition of
the lyric to that in '82. You may say there's been a lot of discussion
about what the riddle is, but I've never actually been asked that question
in an interview. Because no one asked me it all fell a bit flat! Now all
these years on, I'm afraid to say really that there is no real solution.
You can search for your own one if you like. It was a bit of a joke. When
I was writing it I honestly didn't really have a specific idea in mind. If
you can find out what the answer is, perhaps you can tell me!
According to Scott McMahan and the Genesis Discography, the lurker is a
"..all the clues are there. I would bet the "two eyes looking to see what
I was" refers to a stereo periscope.
Clothes of brass: Brass is a staple of the nautical world, for its
resistance to corrosion. The use of the word conjures up more 2000 Leagues
Under The Sea images than those of a nuclear powered submarine, but
nevertheless the association of brass with the sea is inescapable.
Hair of brown: When submarines surface, they have all sorts of seaweeds
and camouflage on the deck that is exposed to the sky.
Seldom need to breathe: Submarines carry their own air supply, and do not
often need to resurface.
Don't need no wings to fly: Of course not, it "flies" through the ocean.
And a heart of stone: Uranium, the stone that powers the nuclear reactor.
And a fear of fire and water: The two most deadliest things that can
happen to a submarine. Water means a hull breach, and pressure loss, and
everyone dies. Fire means all the oxygen aboard burns and everyone dies.
The final proof that the answer to the riddle is, truly, a submarine lies
in the music. The working titles for Dodo and Lurker were German I and II.
As in German U-boats, because the music itself doesn't sound Germanic. If
you listen to Dodo, Lurker, and Submarine back to back, you will find that
Lurker has some of the exact same drum lines, and Lurker ends on the same
music that Submarine begins. Like the suites of thematically related music
in A Trick Of The Tail and Wind and Wuthering, this is yet another case of
Genesis splicing and dicing a long track of related music into separate
parts scattered all over the place."
-------------------------------------------------------------
The third part of "Dodo/Lurker" is of course "Submarine" which was on the
B-side of the "Man on the Corner" single and the Archive #2 boxset.
Very interesting, thanks. So, Banksie was being a bit coy on Larry King's
show?! Funny, actually, because I always imagined it was Colins who wrote
that lyric. Doesn't sound like a Banks lyric.
Jack
2005-12-04 01:43:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
According to Scott McMahan and the Genesis Discography, the lurker is a
"..all the clues are there. I would bet the "two eyes looking to see what
I was" refers to a stereo periscope.
Clothes of brass: Brass is a staple of the nautical world, for its
resistance to corrosion. The use of the word conjures up more 2000
Leagues Under The Sea images than those of a nuclear powered submarine,
but nevertheless the association of brass with the sea is inescapable.
Hair of brown: When submarines surface, they have all sorts of seaweeds
and camouflage on the deck that is exposed to the sky.
Seldom need to breathe: Submarines carry their own air supply, and do not
often need to resurface.
Don't need no wings to fly: Of course not, it "flies" through the ocean.
Of course.... This explanation of the riddle is a bit stretched I have no
trouble believing that there is in fact no actual answer.
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
And a heart of stone: Uranium, the stone that powers the nuclear reactor.
And a fear of fire and water: The two most deadliest things that can
happen to a submarine. Water means a hull breach, and pressure loss, and
everyone dies. Fire means all the oxygen aboard burns and everyone dies.
The final proof that the answer to the riddle is, truly, a submarine lies
in the music. The working titles for Dodo and Lurker were German I and
II. As in German U-boats,
We all know that the Dodo was also a submarine too, you can never read too
much in working titles.
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
because the music itself doesn't sound Germanic. If you listen to Dodo,
Lurker, and Submarine back to back, you will find that Lurker has some of
the exact same drum lines,
Same drum lines as ?
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
and Lurker ends on the same music that Submarine begins.
Not really, though C chords have been known to pop up from time to time in
music generally speaking.
Post by ikr
Very interesting, thanks. So, Banksie was being a bit coy on Larry King's
that lyric. Doesn't sound like a Banks lyric.
Exactly what makes this lyric sound like it was Phil's and not Tony's ?
There's no "all of my life, I love you, don't break my heart, suuuu suuu
suuudio" non sense, that alone should make one think twice.
ikr
2005-12-04 08:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
According to Scott McMahan and the Genesis Discography, the lurker is a
"..all the clues are there. I would bet the "two eyes looking to see
what I was" refers to a stereo periscope.
Clothes of brass: Brass is a staple of the nautical world, for its
resistance to corrosion. The use of the word conjures up more 2000
Leagues Under The Sea images than those of a nuclear powered submarine,
but nevertheless the association of brass with the sea is inescapable.
Hair of brown: When submarines surface, they have all sorts of seaweeds
and camouflage on the deck that is exposed to the sky.
Seldom need to breathe: Submarines carry their own air supply, and do
not often need to resurface.
Don't need no wings to fly: Of course not, it "flies" through the ocean.
Of course.... This explanation of the riddle is a bit stretched I have no
trouble believing that there is in fact no actual answer.
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
And a heart of stone: Uranium, the stone that powers the nuclear reactor.
And a fear of fire and water: The two most deadliest things that can
happen to a submarine. Water means a hull breach, and pressure loss, and
everyone dies. Fire means all the oxygen aboard burns and everyone dies.
The final proof that the answer to the riddle is, truly, a submarine
lies in the music. The working titles for Dodo and Lurker were German I
and II. As in German U-boats,
We all know that the Dodo was also a submarine too, you can never read too
much in working titles.
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
because the music itself doesn't sound Germanic. If you listen to Dodo,
Lurker, and Submarine back to back, you will find that Lurker has some
of the exact same drum lines,
Same drum lines as ?
Post by ikr
Post by jren57
and Lurker ends on the same music that Submarine begins.
Not really, though C chords have been known to pop up from time to time in
music generally speaking.
Post by ikr
Very interesting, thanks. So, Banksie was being a bit coy on Larry King's
that lyric. Doesn't sound like a Banks lyric.
Exactly what makes this lyric sound like it was Phil's and not Tony's ?
There's no "all of my life, I love you, don't break my heart, suuuu suuu
suuudio" non sense, that alone should make one think twice.
ROFL - yeah I know. Can't put my finger on it - the style? the use of
language?
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-04 14:44:39 UTC
Permalink
If you listen to Dodo,
Post by Jack
Post by jren57
Lurker, and Submarine back to back, you will find that Lurker has some
of the exact same drum lines,
Same drum lines as ?
The closing segment (on the record, not the live version) of Lurker, the
last drum pattern follows directly into the style of Submarine.
Post by Jack
Post by jren57
and Lurker ends on the same music that Submarine begins.
Not really, though C chords have been known to pop up from time to time in
music generally speaking.
Yes, except that if you analyze the two tracks using a wave sile analyzer,
(as Polo did), they are not just in the same key, they match EXACTLY.

In addition if you listen to Naminanu, (particularly at what might be
loosely described as the middle section) then the opening of Dodo, the
octave jump to a flattened seventh and the chord sequences underneath are
the same. Naminanu has evolved since that stage though, and some invention
(and a time sig change) would be necessary to make it run directly into
Dodo.

The Real Naminanu (Who knows a BIT about his eponymous track! ;o) )
Covenant
2005-12-04 17:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
The Real Naminanu (Who knows a BIT about his eponymous track! ;o) )
YEah....

Thats the *boot* version of the demos of the music that became those three
tracks, yeah??

(C'mon Nam.. don;t leave me lookin' stoopit!)

;' ))
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-05 00:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Covenant
YEah....
Thats the *boot* version of the demos of the music that became those three
tracks, yeah??
(C'mon Nam.. don;t leave me lookin' stoopit!)
;' ))
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
I'd love to get hold of it, Joe, and I believe it exists - can't remember
who said it did, though.

IIRC Polo put together Me/Dodo-Lurker/Submarine as one suite, with Me
suitably edited with bits from Dodo so they ran together. Lurker was then
spliced back as the jam session intended, and the U-Boat suite was reborn.

Regrettably, that was in the days before I was computer savvy, and shortly
after I spent several hours downloading it, I suffered a computer crash and
lost it. Didn't have the guts to ask Polo to post it again....

If Polo's still around and is amenable, now we've got Broadband, perhaps
it'll take 4 minutes instead of hours? :o)

TRN
ikr
2005-12-05 20:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by Covenant
YEah....
Thats the *boot* version of the demos of the music that became those
three tracks, yeah??
(C'mon Nam.. don;t leave me lookin' stoopit!)
;' ))
--
Covenant
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
I'd love to get hold of it, Joe, and I believe it exists - can't remember
who said it did, though.
IIRC Polo put together Me/Dodo-Lurker/Submarine as one suite, with Me
suitably edited with bits from Dodo so they ran together. Lurker was then
spliced back as the jam session intended, and the U-Boat suite was reborn.
Regrettably, that was in the days before I was computer savvy, and shortly
after I spent several hours downloading it, I suffered a computer crash
and lost it. Didn't have the guts to ask Polo to post it again....
If Polo's still around and is amenable, now we've got Broadband, perhaps
it'll take 4 minutes instead of hours? :o)
TRN
I'd like to get hold of Me and Submarine, as I've never heard these before.
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-05 20:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by ikr
I'd like to get hold of Me and Submarine, as I've never heard these before.
For "Me" read the track called Naminanu. I refer to it as "Me" becuase of my
user name, and because Sarah coined the phrase when we were discussion this
a while back.

Both Naminanu and Submarine are available on the Second Genesis Archive.
;o)

The REAL Naminanu
ikr
2005-12-05 21:13:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
I'd like to get hold of Me and Submarine, as I've never heard these before.
For "Me" read the track called Naminanu. I refer to it as "Me" becuase of
my user name, and because Sarah coined the phrase when we were discussion
this a while back.
Both Naminanu and Submarine are available on the Second Genesis Archive.
;o)
The REAL Naminanu
Thanks. Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant - is the Second Genesis Archive a bootleg?
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-06 14:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ikr
Thanks. Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant - is the Second Genesis Archive a bootleg?
No.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005064V/qid=1133879767/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2_2/026-2334935-9542033

TRMe
ikr
2005-12-06 19:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
Thanks. Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant - is the Second Genesis Archive a bootleg?
No.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005064V/qid=1133879767/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2_2/026-2334935-9542033
TRMe
Thanks
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-20 13:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
Post by ikr
Thanks. Sorry, I'm a bit ignorant - is the Second Genesis Archive a bootleg?
No.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005064V/qid=1133879767/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2_2/026-2334935-9542033
TRMe
Naminanu and Submarine are also available on Napster for about £0.79 each,
about $1.40.

TRMe

Sarah
2005-12-05 23:05:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by The REAL Naminanu
For "Me" read the track called Naminanu. I refer to it as "Me" becuase of my
user name, and because Sarah coined the phrase when we were discussion this
a while back.
<<<<<yawn>>>>>

What?????

Somebody blaming me for something?

Next I'll get blamed for the phrase "Uncle Slubsy's Bedtime Stories"
which I understand are being requested again as a holiday treat.

@}-`-,-- Sarah
The REAL Naminanu
2005-12-06 14:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarah
<<<<<yawn>>>>>
What?????
Somebody blaming me for something?
Giving the credit for. Not blaming!
Post by Sarah
Next I'll get blamed for the phrase "Uncle Slubsy's Bedtime Stories"
which I understand are being requested again as a holiday treat.
@}-`-,-- Sarah
Again, that's a credit, isn't it?

;o)

TRMe
m***@hotmail.com
2005-12-05 02:17:35 UTC
Permalink
If I'm not mistaken, this song was written in TLLDOB year, 1974.
Post by ikr
What are these all about? Don't usually pay much attention to the words
themselves, but I was listening to this album the other day for the first
time in, oh, about 20 years, and the lyric jumped out at me. A metaphor for
something political? I like PC's drumming (esp the hi-hat) and the kbd riff
in the first few lines of the verse on Dodo.
Loading...